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JERRY FALWELL ON CNN's CROSSFIRE 2/25/02
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT ROBERTSON: Well, but you can't say the religion is a
religion of peace. It's not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: But is Islam a religion of violence? Or
did Pat Robertson go too far?
And as more bodies are found at a Georgia crematory, is it
time for more government regulation of the funeral business?
ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill
Press. On the right, Robert Novak. In the CROSSFIRE, Reverend
Jerry Falwell, chancellor of Liberty University and Ibrahim
Hooper, communications director for the Council on Arab
Islamic Relations. And later, Fred Smith, president of the
Competitive Enterprise Institute and Lisa Carlson, executive
director of the Funeral Consumers Alliance.
PRESS: It's a whole new week of CROSSFIRE. Thanks for joining
us. Ever since September 11, President Bush has insisted that
America is not waging war on Islam. But some Americans
apparently are
On his "700 CLUB" broadcast last week, the Reverend
Pat Robertson said, in fact, he disagreed with Bush. "I
have taken issue with our esteemed president in regard to his
stand in saying Islam is a peaceful religion. It's just not.
And the Korean makes it very clear, if you see an infidel, you
are to kill him."
Robertson's remark echo earlier remarks by the Reverend
Franklin Graham, calling Islam a very evil and wicked
religion. So what's the truth? Is Islam a peaceful or a
violent religion? Are Christians like Robertson and Graham
preaching love or hate -- Bob Novak.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Dr. Falwell, just a few days after the
terrorist attacks, President Bush went to the mosque in
Washington and this is what he said. Let's listen to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The face of
terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what
Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't
represent peace. They represent evil and war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Just the other day, Dr. Falwell, the president of the
United States directly disagreed with Pat Robertson. He said
Islam is religion of peace. Now sir, I would like you to tell
us which side you're on? No kidding around. Either for -- do
you agree with George W. Bush or Pat Robertson?
JERRY FALWELL, CHANCELLOR, LIBERTY UNIV.: Well, I don't kid
around, Bob. You know that. I'm a strong supporter of
President Bush, and he is doing exactly the right thing in
singling out his enemy and not putting America at war with
over a billion persons.
I also agree with Pat Robertson. I'm not a student of the
Koran, I must be honest. I also agree with Pat Robertson that
there's evidence worldwide that some bad things are coming out
of the world of Islam right now. And I would just give two
examples.
One, in the 30 or more Islamic nations in which the -- Islam
is in the majority and control of the government, there is
zero religious liberty there. Zero. And you let a Catholic
priest, a Jewish rabbi, an evangelical minister go there,
prosthelitize, preach the gospel, share Jesus, unlike America,
Europe, Asian, he will pay terribly.
Secondly, I have not seen in the headlines of America's major
newspapers a single, not one single significant American
Muslim organization condemn what happened to Daniel Pearl at
the hand of some of these Islamic crazies. So if you really
want to get off that reputation, give us freedom in your
countries and start condemning these nuts. If an American
Christian did that to a Muslim, you know we'd stand up and
condemn it.
NOVAK: All right. Jerry Falwell, you're drifting us away from
my question, as I'm afraid you would. But I just want to give
you another quote. We're going to put it up on the screen from
Dr. Franklin Graham last November 19th. He said of Islam,
"It's a different God and I believe it's a very evil and
wicked religion."
Now we're not talking right now about whether somebody made a
statement here or made a statement there. I just can't believe
you, Jerry Falwell, are agreeing with your friend Pat
Robertson that it's a violent religion, and with your friend
Franklin Graham that it's an evil religion. Do you or don't
you?
FALWELL: First of all, Franklin a little later modified what
he was saying there. But I just believe that we have to look
at the facts. I don't believe that all Muslims are violent
people. Like you, I have many Islamic friends, who are just
the opposite. But I am saying that the evidence on the
international scene, that is, Islamic countries where they
control the government, zero religious freedom and very few,
if any, Islamic organizations in America are condemning these
damnable things they're doing around the world. PRESS: Ibrahim
Hooper, this is one of those rare nights where Bob Novak and I
agree that Pat Robertson's remarks were obnoxious, but I do
have to ask you this question. If you look at the history of
Christianity, and I'm a Christian, there's a lot of ugly stuff
that went on in the name of Jesus. I mean, you talk about the
Crusades, you talk about the inquisition, you talk about the
holy wars, killing for Jesus. People went into battle, citing
passages of the Bible.
But Christianity has put that violence behind them. Why is it
that Islam has not? That even today, there are still people
who take the most primitive passages out of the Koran and use
them as their motivation?
IBRAHIM HOOPER, COUNCIL ON ARAB-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: Well, it's
true, obviously, that Muslims need reform. Islam doesn't need
reform, but Muslims do. And I wanted to correct a couple
things that Reverend Falwell said. First of all, religious
freedom in the Muslim world, it varies widely from place to
place. To lump every Muslim government...
FALWELL: Not where they control the government.
HOOPER: 10 percent of Christian population in Egypt, 15
percent of Palestinians are Christian. In Iraq, major
Christian populations. Where did the Jewish community in
Europe go to flee persecution? It went to the Muslim world. As
far as Mr. Pearl, our organization condemned his kidnapping,
called for his release. And we condemn this killing.
FALWELL: What's the name of your organization, sir?
HOOPER: Council on American Islamic Relations.
FALWELL: Yes. I just hadn't seen that in the headlines of
"The New York Times" or "The Washington
Post," nor have I seen you on 6:30 news.
HOOPER: Well, it was on "The Washington Times" on
Saturday.
FALWELL: Well, I said "The Washington Post". And I
haven't heard you condemning Osama bin Laden. I haven't heard
you...
HOOPER: We condemn Osama bin Laden. We condemn terrorism. We
condemn it 100 times. And I can't help what you don't hear.
FALWELL: Then I admire you and I commend you. But I want to
tell you the Louis Farrakhans, who seem to get the
headlines...
HOOPER: Louis Farrakhan has nothing to do with the American
Muslim community.
FALWELL: You better watch your back going home tonight.
PRESS: Let me ask you this about the Koran though. I mean, I
was -- in our research today, there was a quote from a Web
site called "The Voice of the Martyrs" Web site.
It's a Christian Web site that points out that in the Koran,
the words "fight" and the words "kill"
appear many, many more times than love or peace.
HOOPER: Anybody can -- and during World War II, they said the
Japanese had no word for love. You know, and you know, any
religion is subject to this kind of distortion and
misinterpretation. I mean, look at here, in Matthew, it says
"Do not think I have come to bring peace on earth. I have
come to bring -- not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Does that mean Christianity is a violent faith? Reverend
Falwell would go, well, yes he said it but. Well, Muslims have
a lot of yes buts, too, that aren't going to be addressed by
this kind of...
FALWELL: Well, sir, I would like to take you with me, if I
could, to Iraq. And I would like for to you to stand by my
side and allege to be my friend, while I pass out gospel
tracks in Baghdad and preach the gospel on a street corner.
HOOPER: The vice president of Iraq is a Christian.
FALWELL: You and I both would be corpses.
HOOPER: Tariq Azziz is a Christian.
FALWELL: You know and I know that what I just said is true.
There is no opportunity in Islamic countries, where they
control the government, for religious freedom or for an
evangelical to preach the gospel or a Jew to share Judaism.
HOOPER: Saddam Hussein is a Muslim leader? Come on, give me a
break. This is the kind of misinformation that I'm talking
about.
FALWELL: I should just go with you then.
HOOPER: All of these widely varying -- parachute me into
Baghdad. I'll go after Saddam Hussein myself.
FALWELL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
NOVAK: I think you were trying to make the point when he was
talking that Tariq Azziz, who is one of the closest advisers
to Saddam Hussein, is indeed a Christian and a practicing
Christian. But I want you to listen, Dr. Falwell, to something
that the foreign policy adviser of the Saudi Arabian kingdom,
Adel Al-Jubeir, said just yesterday about Daniel Miller (sic).
Let's listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: The taking of an
innocent life in Islam is as if you took the life of all of
humanity. It's cold blooded murder. And people who commit
murder in Islam are punished by death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Yes, this -- because I meant Daniel -- yes, I meant
Daniel Pearl, of course. But the question is, that's what
really bothers me, Dr. Falwell, when you smear that broad
brush. You say there's no Muslim organization condemned it.
the Muslims did not condemn it.
FALWELL: I said no significant American Muslim organization.
HOOPER: That is not true. Absolutely not true.
FALWELL: Now this gentleman says he didn't condemn it. Who are
the rest of them?
HOOPER: And others. Muslim Public Affairs Counsel, American
Muslim Counsel, Islamic Society of North America, Islamic
Circle of North America, Ministry of Amam W.D. Muhammad. Can I
go on or?
NOVAK: No, you can't go on, because we're out of time. Thank
you very much.
FALWELL: I still want to take you to Iraq to preach the gospel
and see if we come home alive.
NOVAK: OK. All right, maybe you'll take me with you, too.
Thank you very much, Jerry Falwell.
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